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thoughts and comming trivia

diesel

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#1
Being a history freak and also a lover of trivia in general, I thought this may be fun for all of us, most notably Rich C. and my man, Dan da Man.
Okay guys, read this on S&W blog this morning. I'll throw this out and have a few more ideas for later.
Answer the question, and more importantly your opinions on the matter. "AD, don't let me down, my friend.


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did any police departments across this country ever issue 44 mag. guns for law enforcement use? or did any departments allow there officers to carry them off duty? just wondering, I read yesterday an excerpt from Elmer Keith "sixguns" where he said it would be fine for law enforcement use,,,,,,,, (Olskool)
 
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#2
Yes some law enforcement did some later carried the .44 special saying recoil from the .44mag was to much. I think some motorcycle officers from Dallas.
 

diesel

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#3
Right on, my brother;

My agency authorized .44 MAG for duty and off-duty, but the guns had to be bought by the individual. The issued revolvers were either Colt Pythons (4" blued .357) or S&W M66's (4"), and later 686's (4").

Ammunition was initially issued one time for the people carrying .357 MAG, but you had to buy your own duty ammunition in any other caliber.

I knew quite a number of guys who carried 4"-6" .44's on-duty (and a smattering of .45 ACP or Colt).

I eventually knew a handful of other guys who had worked for different local agencies who had previously approved the use of .41 & .44 MAG revolvers during the older revolvers days. One of them used to ride motors at his former agency, and he really favored his S&W .44 MAG duty revolver.

I never got around to buying a Buscadero rig to carry one of my own .44's as a duty weapon (costly, even back then, as they were custom-made), but I did carry one or another of them as off-duty weapons. I used .44 MAG factory ammo when I took one of my guns to the range, which I bought, as the only qualification ammo available was some locally reloaded .44 SPL loads. Nasty enough clouds of smoke, and smudged cylinders and frames, to make me think they used Unique for their reloads.


As time passed, and the heyday of revolvers for duty use were far back in the rear-view mirror, we finally started to frown upon authorizing big bore Magnum revolvers for off-duty (especially when the new .500 & .450 S&W MAG guns were appearing). I don't think they'll approve of anyone carrying anything for off-duty chambered in anything more powerful than a medium-bore .357 MAG or .357SIG nowadays. (Fastbolt)
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Yes some law enforcement did some later carried the .44 special saying recoil from the .44mag was to much. I think some motorcycle officers from Dallas.
 

diesel

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#8
I'm going to say Winchester 45/70 but deep down inside Henry
Trust the old gut,Daniel. 1860 "Henry" chambered in .44 rimfire.
Good stabs by both of ya.o_O:flag:

PS: anyone know what calibur Henry's first 1873 rifle was chambered in? (i do not, however, i am aware it was not .45)

PSS: please try to guess these as Dan'l and Oldman10mm did, guys. No fun if we cheat and please throw some back at me.
( if you all don't enjoy this triv, or think it stupid, and want me to stop, i will do so asap):):flag:

caseless round, Martini-Henry , .44 Rimfire
 

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diesel

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#9
By 1866, production on Henry’s rifle came to an end with only 14,000 having been produced. The gun didn’t disappear entirely, though. A similar rifle featuring a hand guard and loading gate entered the market that same year under a new name: Winchester’s Model 1866.

Who designed the 1866 Winchester?:flag::flag:
 
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#10
Wasn't part of the design a improvement over the yellow boy. With help from Oliver Winchester , Horace smith, and Dan Wesson ? I believe they were all part of another gun company but can't remember the name off hand. The Winchester lever guns are in high demand with Cowboy Action Shooters of our age group or a little older than me and you.
 

diesel

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#11
Wasn't part of the design a improvement over the yellow boy. With help from Oliver Winchester , Horace smith, and Dan Wesson ? I believe they were all part of another gun company but can't remember the name off hand. The Winchester lever guns are in high demand with Cowboy Action Shooters of our age group or a little older than me and you.
Actually , my friend, Ollie never designed or built anything but a shirt. I believe your talking about the "Volcanic Arms Co." which S&W founded some time in the 1850's. This co. actually produced the first functional lever gun;.....a pistol!! I also believe it was tube fed with the first non/metallic cartridge. Form casted, hollowed out, rear end of the projectile filled with black powder and believe it or not, a fulminated mercury primer!
Not 100% sure of all i've written here but, i am about 96% sure.
I'll do some reading later to try to verify my claims and try to find a photo of the first Volcanic.

Ollie was a shirt maker from NY, me thinx, bought stock in Volcanic and bought the boys out when they shut her down to form S&W, thank God.:confused::flag:
 

diesel

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#12
More on the Henry;

Ludlow on the henry
With its reliable .44 caliber rimfire metallic cartridge, the Henry produced a rapid and highly accurate fire. Reports of the successful use of Henry rifles in the Civil War were numerous.
The incredible firepower unleashed by the Henry is evident in Major William Ludlow’s account of the Battle of Allatoona Pass. “What saved us that day was the fact that we had a number of Henry rifles” wrote Major Ludlow.
“This company of 16 shooters sprang to the parapet and poured out such a multiplied, rapid and deadly fire, that no men could stand in front of it and no serious effort was made thereafter to take the fort by assault.”


Walter Hunt(July 29, 1796 – June 8, 1859) was anAmericanmechanic. He was born inMartinsburg, New York.[1]Through the course of his work he became renowned for being a prolific inventor, notably of the lockstitchsewing machine(1833),safety pin(1849),[2]a forerunner of theWinchester repeating rifle, a successfulflaxspinner, knife sharpener,streetcarbell, hard-coal-burningstove, artificial stone,street sweeping machinery, and theice plough.[3]

Walter Hunt did not realize the significance of many of these when he invented them; today, many are widely used products. He thought little of the safety pin, selling the patent for $400[4]to the companyW R Grace and Company, to pay a man to whom he owed $15. He failed to patent his sewing machine at all, because he feared it would createunemploymentamong seamstresses. (This led to an 1854 court case when the machine was re-invented byElias Howe; Hunt's machine shown to have design flaws limiting its practical use).[5]In seeking patents for his inventions, Hunt used the services ofCharles Grafton Page, a patent solicitor who had previously worked at theUS Patent Office. Like Howe, Hunt is buried inGreen-Wood CemeteryinBrooklyn, New York.


One day in 1849, mechanic and amateur inventor Walter Hunt (1796-1859) sat at his desk twisting a piece of brass wire around in his fingers. He was trying to come up with an idea that he could sell to pay off a $15 debt. He eventually twisted the wire into loop with a point on one end and a clasp on the other, and the humble safety pin was born. Hunt received a patent for what he called "a new and useful improvement in the make or form of dress-pins." He later sold the patent for $400.



Some of his important inventions are shown here with drawings from the patent.


  • Fountain pen
    Patent 4927


  • Safety pin
    Patent 6281


  • Nail making machine
    Patent 3305


  • Sewing machine
    Patent 11,161


  • Swivel-Cap Stopper
    Patent 9,527


  • Inkstand
    Patent 4221





  • Ice Boat
    Patent 958
  • What year did Mr. Hunt patent the Winchester fore runner?
 
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#17
HOT HOT HOT !!! 158 grain at around 1500fps. I think it started in the 38-44 revolver then transitioned to the Model 27. It took the longer barrels to achieve the velocity. Ammunition potency(factory) ended in the 70s'/80s'.
 
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#18
Well the 1935 load was 16.0 grains of 2400 powder ahead of a small rifle primer. Remember the powder burn rate has change some since then. Today it would be 14-15 grains of 2400 and a standard primer.